AMBASSADOR'S REMARKS & PUBLIC EVENTS

Ambassador Ross Wilson
Interview with Mustafa Balbay, Cumhuriyet

May 8, 2008, Ankara

BALBAY:  The time is of the essence.  Thank you very much for your time.  We had to cut off the meeting although we wanted to have this interview very much.  Finally, we made it.  How will the elections results in the U.S. affect Turkey?  If Obama or McCain is elected as the president, how will this affect Turkey and its relations with our country?  We don’t know much about how Obama approaches Turkey, how will his policies be regarding Turkey if he gets elected?  What are your opinions on that? 

AMBASSADOR WILSON:  I think the first thing I would say is to make the obvious observation.  The outcome of our election is very uncertain.  Senator McCain is a big friend of Turkey, he’s been here at least twice since I’ve arrived and many times before.  I’m a little less familiar with Senator Obama and interactions that he may have had with Turkey.  He has some very serious people advising him who have experience in past presidential administrations.  I think the second thing to say is that obviously new presidents take a look at American policies; they make changes in the direction of many issues.  But it’s no exaggeration to say that most of American foreign policy continues from administration to administration.  Turkey is an extremely important country especially because of its location, in a difficult part of the world, very very important to the U.S.  That was the case years ago, it will be the case ten years from now, and I think is the reason why the same general lines in American policy toward Turkey, we’ve seen over the last, ten, fifteen, twenty years are likely to continue.   

BALBAY:  After the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1990s, Turkey was regarded as an important state, at the front.  Some circles said that Turkey’s importance has somewhat lessened in time afterwards.  And a new geography has emerged.  Do you think the importance of Turkey lessened after the Cold War? Or how has it changed, what’s its importance right now?

AMBASSADOR WILSON:  Turkey’s importance to the U.S. is great.  As it was then, so now Turkey is on the front lines of peace and freedom and stability and prosperity in a complicated part of world.  I think a lot of people when they thought about the possibility of real conflict during the Cold War, expected that that would probably happen in Central Europe.  Right now to Turkey’s South, to Turkey’s Southeast, to Turkey’s East, there are real conflicts and there are some extremely serious problems that matter greatly to the U.S. and our alliance.  Instead of having one big Soviet Union as an enemy, there are a number of other countries that aren’t enemies necessarily, but they present some serious problems.  And then add to that a variety of non-state actors, terrorist groups, that are trying to destroy civilized societies in Afghanistan, in Pakistan, in Iraq and elsewhere.  And they fundamentally threaten our way of life.  So when I look at the complicated world of debate in my mind, Turkey is at least as important as it was, if not, much more so. 

BALBAY:  Now the U.S. is trying to carry out its regional goals.  When we look at the past, we see our March 1st petition problem between our two countries.  And I remember that there was a defense and economic agreement between U.S. and Turkey back in 1982 during the Cold War era.  So I sense that there’s somewhat and uncertainty perhaps a lack of bilateral agreements between our countries.  Maybe there may be more room to utilize potentials of Turkey.  There may be more room for cooperation between our countries.  Is there uncertainty?

AMBASSADOR WILSON:  I would not say that there’s uncertainty on the part of the U.S. about its relationship with this country.  Of course March 2003 was a problem for both of our countries.  But one of the first things that I said when I arrived here in December 2005 was ‘As far as the U.S. is concerned, that was history.’  It was over and it was not going to be a determining factor in how we would conduct our relations with this country and it has not.  And since that time or since a few months before I arrived, we, U.S. and Turkey have worked to restore a high level dialogue between our senior officials and we’ve identified common projects to work on, in the vision document that Secretary Rice and FM Gul issued.  And we worked our way through those things.  Are there things that the U.S. government would like to see or do with Turkey?  Of course there are.  Are there things that Turkey would like to see from or do with the U.S.?  Of course there are.  But the basis is a strong relationship routed in our bilateral alliance, rooted in shared democratic values.  And I just underscore, I think we have a strong and confident relationship between our two countries. 

BALBAY:  So how does Turkey come into picture with regard to Greater Middle East Project?  This project is a very controversial domestic issue here in Turkey, so how does the U.S. see it and see Turkey’s role in it?

AMBASSADOR WILSON:  The Broader Middle East North Africa initiative, BMENA, was launched to the G8 Summit, I think in 2004.  It wasn’t an American project; it isn’t an American project now.  It’s a G8 initiative.  And the idea was looking at the region from far western North Africa, all the way across to Afghanistan, our countries the G-8 countries any way, saw a number of states that were underdeveloped economically, that were underdeveloped in terms of democratic institutions and civil societies, countries that had a lot of problems and needed help.  The G-8 countries invited other strong, prosperous, democratic free societies to help in this effort to assist countries throughout the Broader Middle East and North Africa.  And Turkey is one of those countries that is helping in that effort.  So Turkey has played a leading role in a couple of the, at least one of the specific subgroups or initiatives under this broader set of projects that are launched by the G-8.  Maybe to put it another way, Turkey is not the object or an object of the BMENA.  BMENA is not something that’s trying to change Turkey on the contrary, BMENA is an activity in which Turkey participates to try to affect democratic, civil society, market economic development in countries around this region that do not enjoy the benefits that Turkey has because it is a democracy with a free civil society and a market economy. 

BALBAY:  About the closure case against the AKP.  Secularism is now very controversial issue widely debated in Turkey.  Can I have your opinions about secularism and the regime in Turkey?  Did this closure case come up in the meeting with Cheney when he visited?  What are your views about democratic structure and the rule of law in Turkey?

AMBASSADOR WILSON:  There are many questions.  If I forget something that you want me to address, come back to me.  First, I don’t want to comment on the specifics of the case, that’s before the Constitutional Court and I shouldn’t, that’s inappropriate.  Of course, we are following it and the debate around the issues very closely.  We’re concerned about where this may lead Turkey.  We also have a lot of confidence in this country and in its institutions.  You asked about the vice president’s visit.  The subject did not come up in any significant way, in any of the discussions that I was part of while he was here.  I was in virtually all those discussions.  Secretary Rice spoke to the U.S.-Turkey relationship and to the accordance of democracy as a theme in that relationship in a speech she gave to the American Turkish Council in April.  She talked a lot about how important democracy is for my country, about how difficult it has been to develop our democracy and by extension how difficult it is to develop democracy elsewhere.  She was also very clear on how central our mutual commitment to democratic values is to our overall relationship and our ability to work together.  And she referred specifically to the importance of democratic values and Turkey’s secular principles for this country’s future and to the extent for our bilateral relations for the kind of cooperation that we want to achieve. 

BALBAY:  Of course, these are also your opinions.

AMBASSADOR WILSON:  Yes, they are.

BALBAY:  As you said Mr. Ambassador, we are in a very difficult part of the world and there’s this debate going on about moderate Islam.  What are your opinions about that? Do you support it?   

AMBASSADOR WILSON:  ‘Moderate Islam’ is not a term that I use, because I’m not sure what it means.  We work closely with Turkey because of a shared history in confronting Soviet expansionism, a shared commitment to democratic values and to freedom, a shared commitment to working together on a wide range of topics through NATO and bilaterally.  All of those things are the basis of our relationship.  There are, of course, countries in this region who are not interested in freedom and democracy and they’re not interested in working with their neighbors on behalf of peace and prosperity.  And of course, there are terrorist groups here and elsewhere in the world that have really revolutionary aims to overthrow our societies and our way of life.  Some of those groups try to wrap themselves with the cloak of Islam, although they have nothing to do with Islam and so as the West tries to simplify how it looks at the world a lot of people talk about Islamic extremes, which is probably not really the right term.  The truth is those people are just violent extremists.  And I think that the term ‘moderate Islam’ that’s sometimes used in the U.S. and elsewhere in the West has a similar kind of origin.  It’s used by some people as a short and simple way to talk about something that’s complicated.  To repeat, I do not use it.  And I don’t think the U.S. government really uses that term either.  We work closely with friends and allies.  Turkey is a friend and an ally. 

BALBAY:  The Fethullah Gulen movement is very much under discussion here in Turkey, including the fact that he is living in the U.S.  How do you think this factor reflects on the U.S. - that he has schools constructed in Central Asia?  So what are your thoughts about this movement?

AMBASSADOR WILSON:  Well, I think the U.S. neither supports nor opposes Fethullah Gulen.  There are all kinds of people that get visas to travel to the U.S. and live in the U.S. and spend a lot of time there.  We don’t necessarily support, don’t necessarily agree with them.  We don’t generally apply religious tests or even ideological tests to decide who we’re going to allow into our country.  As for his schools in Central Asia and elsewhere, I can only refer to one experience that I had when I was Ambassador in Baku.  I went to one of his schools there.  And I’ll tell you it was a pretty impressive place.  In a country that was only at that time, seven or eight years free from communism, the schools there were terribly equipped, and terribly supplied.  I assume it’s gotten better in Azerbaijan with all the oil and the development since I left.  But my impression on seeing the school that time was there was some pretty good work going on.  I didn’t get into the ideology, I didn’t get in to the religious studies to the extent there may be there, what I saw was some work being done to help people in desperate need.  But I repeat, the U.S. neither supports nor opposes, neither likes nor dislikes Mr. Gulen or what he represents or the work that he’s done. 

BALBAY:  The U.S. has played a very significant role helping Turkey in this fight against PKK terrorism.  How are relations between the U.S. and the Turkish Armed Forces going on right now?  How do you see the future in Iraq?  There are many publications in the U.S. claiming that it’s a lost case now, how do you see Turkey’s role in the future of Iraq?  How will our mutual relations continue in our fight against PKK?  Since November how are they going?  How will they continue to do?

AMBASSADOR WILSON:  You started out by asking where our next president might be on issues of policy and Iraq is one very much, I think, that will depend on the next president, in the direction that he or she chooses to go.  We have had, I think, over a hundred members of Congress coming through Turkey in the last year or so.  Every single one of them has understood and very well appreciated the important role that Turkey has to play if Iraq is going to succeed as a strong, prosperous, united country.  And it’s for that reason that I probably spend more time on Iraq issues and working with Turkey on Iraq-related issues and any other single thing I’ve done here.  And it’s also part of the reason why the President put such great priority on trying to work effectively with Turkey in dealing with the PKK problem in northern Iraq.  Because we realize that is essential to Iraq’s overall success.  Our bilateral cooperation with respect to the PKK is going very very well, it is significantly degrading the PKK’s ability to launch attacks.  And most importantly it is very seriously isolating the PKK for the terrorists that they are, as the terrorist that they are.  So from my perspective, this has been a success, it needs to continue. 

BALBAY:  And about your dialogue with Turkish Armed Forces? 

AMBASSADOR WILSON:  I have very frequent dialogue with the Turkish Armed Forces.  What the President and the PM agreed upon in November has required a lot of work to develop the right mechanisms, to share information, to be sure that the actions are coordinated in such a way that there isn’t inadvertent and friendly fire on U.S. forces that might be in Iraq.  A lot of work is paying important dividends, in defeating the PKK and restoring good relationships of confidence and trust between the U.S. and Turkey, between the U.S. military and the Turkish military. 

BALBAY:  Recently EU representatives’ statements have caused a stir in Turkey with regard to the AKP and the closure case.  Statements from Barroso or Rehn make them appear as if they are advocates of the AKP in this case.  But we notice that the U.S. is pursuing a more balanced approach about this case, a different approach than that of the EU.  The U.S. has underscored the importance of secularism in Turkey more than the EU has done.  And the EU is acting as if it’s regarding Turkey as a laboratory to try if democracy and secularism can co-exist together.  So these approaches from the EU caused some misgivings in Turkey, so can you clarify your stance, the U.S. position on this issue, on secularism and the closure case?AMBASSADOR WILSON:  I think I addressed a lot of this earlier.  The U.S. strongly supports Turkey’s aspirations to join the EU.  That process will require a number of changes in Turkey’s political system, in its regulatory policies, in its economy and in many other walks of life.  And I interpret the specific things that most of the EU leaders have said, in particular President Barroso, in that context.  The only other thing I would say is I think it a mistake to believe that there’s a great difference of view between the U.S. and the EU on the kind of Turkey that we would like to see.  We both want a strong democratic Turkey with strong democratic institutions guided by secular principles and rooted in the rule of law.  And while I think we recognize the fundamental choices are for Turks to make, not for the U.S. or some other outsider to dictate, both the U.S. and the EU want to promote and support those changes here that will help Turkey to realize the European goals that were set by Ataturk and that are reflected in efforts here over the last ten years toward becoming a candidate member for the EU and ultimately for membership. 

AMBASSADOR WILSON:  Cok tesekkur ederim.  And I’m sorry for all the delays.

BALBAY:  Ben tesekkur ederim.