Ambassador's Remarks and Public events
Ambassador James Jeffrey’s Interview with Murat Akgun, NTV
Ankara, June 19, 2009
Murat Akgun: Türk-Amerikan ilişkileri ve Washington yönetiminin ilgili konulardaki düşüncelerini öğrenmek üzere, bu ülkenin Ankara büyükelçisi Sayın James Jeffrey ile beraberiz. Sayın Büyükelçi hoş geldiniz.
Ambassador Jeffrey: Hoşbulduk Murat Bey, öncelikle davetiniz için çok sağolun.
Murat Akgun: Rica ederim. Diplomasiyle ilgilenenler Ankara’nın sizin ilk görev yeriniz olmadığını biliyor. Ama belki izleyicilere ilginç gelebilir. Siz kaç kere Türkiye’ye geldiniz Sayın Büyükelçi?
Ambassador Jeffrey: Şu anda dördüncü defa Türkiye’de bulunuyorum.
Murat Akgun: Dördüncü defa?
Ambassador Jeffrey: Türkiye’de dördüncü kez bulunuyorum. İlk görev yerim olan Adana’da eşim de benimle beraberdi. Bütün görev yerlerimde eşim her zaman yanımda oldu. Daha sonra, 10 sene önce müsteşar yani ikinci adam olarak Ankara’ya döndük. Ve ben üç sene boyunca Ankara kaldım.
Murat Akgun: Şimdi de büyükelçi olarak dördüncü kez Türkiye’de görev yapıyorsunuz.
Ambassador Jeffrey: Doğru.
Murat Akgun: Peki o zaman şunu soracağım. Türkiye’ye sanırım ilk kez 80’li yılların başında geldiniz değil mi?
Ambassador Jeffrey: Evet görevli olarak, ilk kez Adana’da bulundum.
Murat Akgun: O zamanki Türkiye ile şimdiki Türkiye’yi kıyaslarsanız, nasıl bir değişiklik var?
Ambassador Jeffrey: Mukayese etmek gerekirse şunu söyleyebilirim ki, kalkınmışlık anlamında şimdi çok daha ilerdesiniz. Sayın Akgün, 10 sene önce Türkiye’ye geri döndüğümde çok şaşırdım, ne kadar gelişmiş bir ülkeniz olduğunu belirtmek isterim. Bu özellikle iktisadi bakımdan çok belirgin, elbette büyük bir sürpriz de değil. Türkiye şu anda dünyanın en zengin, en büyük ekonomiye sahip ülkeleri arasında anılıyor. Bu da gösteriyor ki, çok başarılı bir ülkeniz var. Hem demokrasi açısından, hem de iktisadi açıdan. Aynı zamanda güvenlik açısından gerçekten çok istikrarsız olan bir bölgede Türkiye, genel olarak barışçı bir ortam içinde yaşıyor.
Murat Akgun: Ok. Mr. Ambassador. Let’s continue in English. Now, my first question is going to be about Turkey’s struggles against PKK terrorism. As you remember, both Mr. President Gul and PM Erdogan have said that actually there’s a very positive atmosphere concerning the efforts to find a permanent solution to Kurdish issue. But my question is do you think that there might be a permanent solution to Kurdish problem unless PKK gives up the arms?
Ambassador Jeffrey: First of all, our belief is that in a democratic system such as Turkey, there is no place for what is called armed resistance. I made that point out in Diyarbakir and President Obama made that similar point when he was here two months ago. Secondly, we are working very closely with the Turkish authorities in joint operations against the PKK providing information and other facilitations to what’s been a very, very succesful Turkish operation against the PKK in northehrn Iraq. But at the same time, it also requires for any insurgency - as we’ve learnt in Vietnam, in Iraq, in Afghanistan - social, political, cultural and various other measures. Thus, from a general stand point, and I want to emphasize general stand point, we very much support the reforms that the Turkish government is considering. In terms of the details, these are very, very complex political questions. We have a lot of faith that the Turkish government and the Turkish people will find a solution.
Murat Akgun: This is also actually what you said in Diyarbakir the day before yesterday. I mean Turkey needs some more political reforms, you have said that ok, they’re complicated issues but would you elaborate a little bit more what kind of political reforms do you expect from Turkey in the short term concerning Kurdish issue?
Ambassador Jeffrey: Well, we’ve already seen a great many. There’s the TRT 6, we’ve seen a willingness of Turkish authirities and Turks of all backgrounds, including Turks of Kurdish background, to talk openly about these problems, that’s an important step. We’ve seen various discussions, including I want to emphasize those by the Chief of the Turkish General Staff, General Basbug on the need for a variety, a very differentiated approach towards the political and other problems of the Southeast. In terms of the details, we don’t want to get into that as an outside friend of Turkey because as I said, these are questions that the Turkish population and the Turkish government will have to decide. But we have a lot of faith that you’re on the right road.
Murat Akgun: When you mention the name of Gen Basbug, I just remember his statement in Washington DC recently during the meeting of ATC. He just said that there should be more steps against the PKK to isolate them in northern Iraq. The question is do you have any new steps in your agenda against PKK in northern Iraq?
Ambassador Jeffrey: Well, General Basbug is correct. There is a very effective military operation ongoing led by the Turks, supported by us and supported by the Iraqi government. However, we need to see more efforts by the regional government in the north, the Kurdistan regional government, to block access to the airports, block access to the mountains and to basically make life more difficult for these remaining groups of PKK. We’re working with the people in the north, there’s a trilateral operation that’s been set up in Erbil. Turkey is involved in this as well as the central government and the regional authorities. We need to continue working in that area.
Murat Akgun: Whenever we talk to officials from central Baghdad authority or northern Iraqi administration, they complain that they don’t have enough power to struggle against the PKK. OK, maybe it’s not possible for them to have armed struggle against PKK, but the other measures you mentioned, do you think they are really sincere to make contribution to the Turkish efforts against PKK?
Ambassador Jeffrey: From my own experience - 13 months in Iraq several years ago - I have to say that the challenges that Iraqis face, the continued violence - although they’re much at lower level - the political decisions that they have make the most difficult possible situation from the standpoint of Turkey look very easy. Because the Iraqi have many many problems. They’re doing much better now than several years ago, but they can not be compared to almost any other country. They’re in a very difficult situation, they are trying to create a new democracy in a federal system with several different groups that they’re bringing together, and deal with the remnants of a very, very vicious insurgency that’s continued for seven years now and, almost seven years, and in addition, deal with not only the PKK, but several other cross border problems. There’s cross border infiltration from Syria, there is influence and activities from Iran, and we’re trying to work all of these things but all of them take time and patience. But we need to do more.
Murat Akgun: At the beginning of the interview, I just remind you that President and Prime Minister of Turkey have both said that there’s a positive atmosphere for solution to Kurdish problem. As an outsider, how do you see it, is there really a positive atmosphere for the Kurdish problem at the moment in Turkey?
Ambassador Jeffrey: Well, the most important answer to that would come not from an outsider, but from Turks who live here, Turks who live throughout the country and Turks who live in the Southeast of the country. From what I saw in my very limited exposure to Diyarbakir, simply the development of that city, that was very surprising to me. And the various steps taken by the Turkish government, there is a new sense of optimism, but there are also many problems and as we say in American English ‘the devil is in the details’ and thus, the specific steps of the government will take, that the other authorities will take will be very improtant. But again, we believe that Turkey has come a long way and that in a democratic environment, many things are possible.
Murat Akgun: Mr. Ambassador, President Obama has just made a promise to withdraw the American forces in the short term from Iraq. And as far as I know in a few days, part of the American forces in Mosul will be withdrawn. Now the question is, did you have any request from Turkish government to use the Turkish harbors or Turkish military bases concerning the withdrawal of the American forces from Iraq to US?
Ambassador Jeffrey: We are in conversation at technical levels with Turkish officials and Turkish military on that question. We haven’t come up with concrete plans yet, but this will be a... while we do move out all of our troops once a year, they rotate it every year. We have a great deal of equipment there and some of this equipment will be left in Iraq, some of it will be transferred to Afghanistan, some of it may be pulled out and one way to pull it out would be through Turkey. We have various agreements that would cover at least part of this, we have the Incirlik air hub that we share with Turkey. And we would take a look at whether there are possibilities, particularly to move bulk materials out.
Murat Akgun: How about the atmosphere of the negotiations, are you in the good mood and when are you going to finish these negotiations?
Ambassador Jeffrey: Well, “these negotiations” is a bit too formal term. These are technical discussions of the sought that at any given time given our large military presence here and in the region, we have technical discussions with Turkish authrotities on many different subjects. They’re always in a good mood and the tone is always excellent. We’re NATO allies, we know each other, we contribute to each other’s operations. And so, it’ll be productive, I’m sure.
Murat Akgun: Let’s continue with the other issues. For example, what about Cyprus problem? Because many people believe that 2009 is a last option to find a solution for the Cyprus problem, do you agree with them? And a follow up question, now it seems that there’s a new tension approaching concerning the Cyprus problem. I mean this decision of the Greek part of Cyprus to let some American companies and some other companies to search oil and petrol in Mediterranean. Now even the Prime M of Turkish part of Cyprus has said that this could be a reason for arm struggle. Now how do you evaluate all these developments in Cyprus?
Ambassador Jeffrey: Well, first of all I don’t think that the last chance is this year. I do think that this is a very, very good chance. We should not let this chance escape us as after the Turkish and Cypriot side took very important steps in 2004 accepting the Annan plan that, alas, did escape us and we thus had five more years of continued division on the island and missed opportunities. Again we hope that same spirit that we saw on Turkish side in 2004 continues. And we believe, as Phil Gordon, our Assistant Secretary of European Affairs, said several days ago to the US Congress, we are hoping this year that we can achieve a break through. Both of the communal leaders are showing flexibility, they’ve been talks now for almost a year. They have looked at many of the basic concerns that are dividing them. We believe that all sides, including the Turkish side, will have to make compromises, but as I said all sides. We also belive that there always one or another side takes a step that either contributes to the atmosphere of dialogue and negotiation or creates problems. And these things come up from time to time, including the issue you mentioned with the undersea exploration. And we’re looking at that. This is not an American official firm that’s involved and it’s an American private firm that like all private firms everywhere in the world, makes its own contracts.
Murat Akgun: Phil Gordon also made a statement, according to press reports he said that Turkey or Turkish part should give some concessions to find a solution for Cyprus problem. Now my question is, don’t you think that it’s the turn of the Greek part a little bit to give concessions? Especially for the Annan plan, they said yes in the referendum. And don’t you think that now it’s the Greek parts turn to give some concessions for a solution?
Ambassador Jeffrey: Well, a concession or compromises - to put in somewhat better linguistic term - are required from all sides now. Now, the Annan plan contained concessions by all sides, it talked about withdrawal of all foreign, not all foreign troops, but most foreign troops, it basically looked at the geographic distribution of territory, and especially, how the country would be organized politically, economically and in terms of its external realtions. There’s a similar process going on and in any such process to make progress, both sides have to make concessions or compromises.
Murat Akgun: Unfortunately, Cyprus and Iraq are not the only problems in this region. Another problematic relation is between Turkey and Armenia. Now, how do you evaluate the last situation concerning Turkish-Armenian relations because there are at first to find a solution? But on the other hand as far I understand, this is my personal opinion, there is not big progress concerning Nagorno-Karabakh problem. Now, again some people are talking about a solution in 2009. Is it too optimistic?
Ambassador Jeffrey: We certainly hope that we will see progress on both of these issues. First of all, the Turkish government along with the Armenian government and the Swiss government on the 22nd of April issued a statement talking about a roadmap that has been developed to move forward on relations between Armenia and Turkey. We immediately issued a statement that endorsed this and pledged our support. In our view, the two issues, Nagorno-Karabakh and the Armenian-Turkish rapprochement, are separate issues. Now, that it isn’t a view of everybody, including the Turkish side. Our view is that they are separate issues, but we understand as again Phil Gordon said several days ago, that they both occur in the context of a movement towards peace in the Caucasus and these are parallel activities that move on at their own speed. We think both activities are showing progress. I’m a little bit more optimistic then you on Nagorno-Karabakh. I think that particularly in the last meeting of the two leaders, President Aliyev and President Sargsyan in St. Petersburg, we saw considerable forward momentum on the talks that are being monitored by the Minsk group of which the United States along with Russia and France are the co-chairs. And we’re hoping for more progress this month, there are series of international meetings where opportunities may be for Mr. Aliyev and Mr. Sargsyan to make further progress, and we think that will create a good general atmosphere for progress on many issues in the Caucasus. You mentioned two, but there are others, there is the situation with Georgia, there is a situation with the East-West energy pipeline. All of those countries in that region are of strategic importance to Turkey, to the United States, to all of us.
Murat Akgun: Do you expect a solution or at least a concrete development in Turkish-Armenian relations before the end of this year?
Ambassador Jeffrey: I am hopeful, yes.
Murat Akgun: Well, let’s see whether you are too optimistic or too pessimistic before the end of the year. I will also have a question concerning the elections in Iran? Mr. Hamani just had a statement, just before you came to my studio saying that actually the reason of the tension in his country is related to the interference of the foreign powers. Now, whenever they talk about foreign powers, people remember United States of America. How do you evaluate the situation right now in Iran in Tehran?
Ambassador Jeffrey: Well, I think that the US government has been extremely careful in its comments about this. President Obama made it clear that while he is very concerned about violence as anybody should be, that we do hope to have a better relationship with Iran in the future. How anybody could consider that interference, I do not know. I believe personally that this is an effort to divert attention from the very, very serious situation there where many Iranians do not believe in the integrity of the democratic system, and of the vote that just took place, that is not an American creation. That is a creation of events in that country and it’s up to the Iranian people to deal with that.
Murat Akgun: Mr. Ahmedinejad won the elections for the second time in Iran. Do you think that it will affect the general approach of USA to Iran in region?
Ambassador Jeffrey: Well, the US has certain views towards Iran. We want to live in peace with Iran. We understand, as the President emphasized in Cairo, that Iran has the right to live in peace in this region. It’s an important country, they have, for example, the right to have peaceful nuclear energy. What we’re very concerned about are, first of all, it’s pursuit of what we believe is a nuclear weapon system which is a great danger to everybody in this region not least Turkey. Secondly, its support for radical groups, its threats to Israel and its general role as a destructive factor in regional security. This is just not the American view, frankly, it’s shared by everybody in the region to one or another degree.
Murat Akgun: One more question, please give me a short answer. Turkey had a very strong important role for Israeli-Syrian negotiations. But after the problem between Turkey and Israel, it seems that Turkey lost its role for a while. Do you think that Turkey can get again the same role in the short term?
Ambassador Jeffrey: Turkey didn’t lose its role. The negotiation stopped because of the situation in Gaza. I know that Turkey is ready. I understand that Syria is ready. If Syria and Israel are ready to engage in talks again, and both sides believe that Turkey - which was a very effective intermediary in the past - should be the intermediary again, we would all think this is is a very good thing and much applauded.
Murat Akgun: Peki, sizinle Türkçe başladık, Türkçe bitirelim isterseniz.
Ambassador Jeffrey: Buyrun.
Murat Akgun: Basketbolla ilgileniyor musunuz?
Ambassador Jeffrey: Evet biraz ilgim var, özellikle eskiden daha çok ilgileniyordum.
Murat Akgun: Peki, o zaman Türk basketbolcusu Hidayet muhteşem bir başarı gösterdi bize göre. Sizce Hidayet nasıldı bu sene?
Ambassador Jeffrey: Hepimiz Hidayet’in başarılarından çok gurur duyuyoruz; hem Amerikalı hem de Türkler olarak. O yüzden bizim işbirliğimiz konusunda bu iyi bir simgedir.
Murat Akgun: Sayın Büyükelçi, sorularımızı yanıtladığınız için teşekkür ediyorum.
Ambassador Jeffrey: Çok sağolun.
Murat Akgun: Efendim, ilginç bir röportaj olduğunu düşünüyorum. Türkçe başladık, İngilizce devam ettik, ardından Türkçe bitirdik. Hidayet’ten de sözetme imkanımız oldu. Görünen o ki, Hidayet Türkoğlu siyasi açıdan da etkileri olan başarılı bir sporcumuz. Yeniden görüşünceye kadar, hoşçakalın efendim.
Updated: October 26, 2009