Statements by U.S. Officials

Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary and Deputy to the Coordinator for Counterterrorism, Frank Urbancic w/Osman Sert at CNN Turk

Ankara, February 12, 2008

Q:        Mr. Urbancic, You are the Deputy Assistant for combating terrorism at the US State Department.  The most important point for Turkey of course is you lived in Istanbul and you know very well the Turkish public’s concerns.  The cooperation against PKK between the U.S. and Turkey is going further.  First of all, to what extent is this cooperation effective in limiting the PKK’s abilities to operate in Turkey and northern Iraq? 

Asst Sec Urbancic:     Let me just say, the PKK is a terrorist organization, and has been listed by the State Department as a terrorist organization for many years now.  We are very pleased to be able to assist our Turkish friends in their fight against this terrorist organization.  Thousands and thousands and thousands of people are dead because of the PKK.  The U.S. has as a matter principle a commitment to fight terrorism worldwide and part of that fight includes the PKK. We want them to disarm and we want to completely disrupt their means of communication.  Until that happens and we don’t see that happening anytime soon, we are determined to cooperate with Turkey in every way we can to eliminate this very imminent and very real threat.  I’m in Turkey today as part of a larger U.S. Government inner governmental delegation which started actually in Western Europe.  That’s the primary focus of this part of the plan.  We are looking at increasing cooperation and acting as a bridge between the Europeans and the Turks in the dialogue which we think is essential.  The PKK is operating on three very distinct levels in Europe.  One is on the terrorist level, that’s the most important, the most dangerous but a smaller one.  The second one is mid-level which is really the corrosive one to European society and that’s sort of as an octopus with various branches engaged in all types of corruption and elicit activity from drugs to trafficking in persons to extortion to every imaginable thing that the mafia could be doing.  And then there are the front organizations which are providing cover for the PKK through various cultural organizations controlled by the PKK or supporting the PKK.  Our target is to work with Europeans and to work with the Turks, to coordinate with the Turks as we work with Europeans to come up with a program which can begin to mitigate the effects of this corrosive, elicit organized crime element.  And that’s where we think we have the greatest value added for Turkey as we look at the West.  We want to find ways to use laws, to bring people who are engaged in these types of activities to justice.

Q:        What are the problems you are facing in the European countries?  Because as a third party, you can notice the Turkey’s expectations from the European countries and you can understand the concerns and the legal problems in the European countries.  What is the problem, why are the Europeans not taking such concrete steps sometimes to disrupt PKK-related organizations?

Asst Sec Urbancic:     I think probably the fundamental issue is that the PKK has been extraordinarily effective.  They have found ways to work around and within European law.  European laws were established to help people who are fleeing from oppressive regimes, to help people bring their families and to get a good education.  But the PKK has been effective in finding out where the weaknesses and the strengths of those laws are.  For example in the European Union they find out that they can broadcast in one country in particular, pretty much with impunity because that country tends to emphasize freedom of speech.  But they can fundraise in another country where they might not have the same freedom of speech abilities.  And they have been able to locate countries where they can get asylum for whatever reason and then exploit that asylum in that country to travel across other boundaries.  What they have done very effectively is to treat Europe as a base and establish themselves as a criminal corporation with various operations in various countries meeting the needs that they see in each one of those countries.  The Europeans are aware of this; the Europeans I think are very interested in countering this.  This is not only about the PKK.  It’s a whole host of other organizations as well.  And Europeans are aware of this.  They are very keenly determined not to minimize their welcome to foreigners who need support and in to our actually under persecution at same time they are keenly aware that they cannot allow themselves to be exploited.  And I think that’s where the U.S. can help to be a bridge with Turkey.

Q:        What do you think about the sincerity of some officials in Europe?

Asst Sec Urbancic:     I think there’s a mixed record.  And it’s not a record that I think any of us would be proud of but it’s precisely these kinds of questions that we’re trying to address.  On the diplomatic level we are trying to address these issues with some of our European partners.  Some are better than others in that respect, some of them have come to a much fuller understanding of what the PKK is doing on their territory.  Others have been successful in disrupting the PKK.  And fundamentally that’s what we have to do.  We have to disrupt their operations, bring them to justice, make them uncomfortable and make them move.

Q:        Sometimes the European countries are saying they are not able to extradite PKK militants because of their laws.  Do you agree with that?

Asst Sec Urbancic:     I’m not in the justice system so I can’t comment on any particular case but I do know for a fact that there have been successful extraditions to Turkey from Europe.  In those cases the Turks have met the requirements that the Europeans have put on them.  The Turks have had fair trials as far as I know.  The Turks have given all the guarantees required and they met all those guarantees.  And in fact one of the things that we hope we can build on with other European countries is using these examples of successful extraditions, to build a case of mutual confidence between Turks and the Western Europeans because the primary question on that issue is confidence in the popular mind in the West the reliability of Turkish justice.  And I think that there’s been great progress and I think there’s what progress it needs to made on both sides but I do sense a willingness on both sides to come to an understanding and to move forward. 

Q:        How long can these military operations go on between the US and Turkey?

Asst Sec Urbancic:     In northern Iraq, I’m certainly not going to put any time frame on it.  Our goal is to defeat terrorism and we’re with the Turks on that.  The Turkish military is very competent and I’ll just leave it at that. I won’t really talk about operations. 

Q:        So combating with PKK is not one dimensional.  It has several dimensions to be successful about it.  And to combat with it in the European continent is part of your job.  What else can be done? Can you see a political framework that may help the success of this process?

Asst Sec Urbancic:     Turkey can count on the U.S. to do its part in assisting Turkey.  But what we can do is only a part of the much larger goal that you have in settling this entire question.  We can work with you militarily and we can work with you diplomatically.  But fundamentally it’s up to Turkey and its citizens to come to a greater decision on how Turkey is going to go forward and what the role each of the citizen groups is going to take.  We are not in a position actually, to be offering you advice.

Q:        Regarding Al-Qaeda and the other terrorist organizations, what can Turkey do in the region and what kind of cooperation mechanisms are going on?

Asst Sec Urbancic:     Turkey is playing at the crossroads.  Turkey is a crossroads between north, south, east and west.  And everybody who needs to go anywhere comes through Turkey.  Turkey has extremely competence services; Turkey has a great contribution to make.  We count on Turkey to help us minimize or reduce the flow of foreign fighters into Iraq.  We’re very concerned about the flow of fighters out of Iraq, once they’ve been there.  And we’re engaged in a host of discussions with the Turkish government at all levels to work on this terrorist threat. Because Turkey is also itself a target and unfortunately you’re aware of that as is your government.

Q:        Regarding drug trafficking, Turkey is on the transit passage and plays a very important role.  There are some reports in Turkey that this trafficking is at least a bit controlled but not fully controlled, what is your perception on that?

Asst Sec Urbancic:     Again, Turkey geographically can’t avoid it.  One way or another, this type of merchandise is going to cross your borders.  And what we can do is work with you to increase your own effectiveness to the extent that we can contribute to stop it.  The Europeans have a vital interest in this.  They are acutely aware of that and I think that they’re working on it pretty well. 

Q:        Mr. Urbancic, thank you very much for joining us.  Thank you again.

Asst Sec Urbancic:     Thank you very much Osman Bey, it’s a great pleasure to be here.  I will always be happy in Turkey.  Thank you.