Statements by U.S. Officials

Daniel Fried Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Interview with CNN Turk

March 16, 2006

QUESTION:  Thank you very much for accepting our request for an interview.  We are very pleased to have you here in our studio.  Let me start straight away.  You have just come back from the Caucasus.  You did a tour of the three countries.  Let me just be very blunt and ask -- are there any prospects for peace in Karabakh?  This problem is affecting a lot of things, and the prospects, to be quite honest, do not look good from where we stand. 

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRIED:  Simple answer:  yes.  There are prospects for peace in Karabakh.  And it was with that objective in mind that the delegation and I went to Baku, and then arrived in Yerevan last night.  We came from Yerivan this afternoon.  After Rambouillet and the difficulties there, we weren’t sure how to proceed.  So we went to Baku.  We had discussions with President Aliyev.  We then went and had discussions today with President Kocharian.  Based on those discussions -- of course, I am not using words like ‘fantastic opportunity,’ we all always have to be cautious -- but there is reason to proceed with a diplomatic approach. 

QUESTION:  Another hotspot appears to be emerging in Djevekheti in Georgia.  You know the story there, of course, about the displaced Turkic minority perhaps coming back, the fact that there is an Armenian community there, the fact that maybe pipelines are involved.  Is there another Karabakh in the making there?  Because I hear some angry remarks coming from both the Armenian side in Djevekheti and the Georgian side, where there is some doubt about whether this may turn into another Karabakh-type situation.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRIED:  I don’t think so.  Happily, I don’t think that the odds are very high that that will happen.  That would be a catastrophe, of course.  I don’t think that would be in anyone’s interest.  I think there is always a need in this part of the world to be sensitive to issues of minorities and ethnic communities.  There is a need to be sensitive, a need to show some outreach.  I don’t think nationalism, in the narrow sense, brings any good results.  But I didn’t sense that.  I think that the lives of Georgians, whatever their ethnicity, will improve as the Georgian economy improves, and I think the Georgian economy is showing signs of growth, of turning around.  It is not happening everywhere in the country, but is certainly happening in Tbilisi.  I think the prospects are good.  As the economy improves, I think, people will be more interested in living better rather than living worse, which is what you get when you pursue narrow nationalist agendas.

QUESTION:  In Yerevan, of course, you met with President Kocharian, and Turkish-Armenian relations must have been part of your discussions.  What kind of message do you bring from the Armenian leadership to Turkey as to how Turkish-Armenian relations can perhaps move along?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRIED:  The Armenian leadership wants good relations with Turkey.  They want the border to be opened.  They want to live in the neighborhood they are in as good neighbors.  I think that’s critical.  I think there have been some Turkish-Armenian contacts.  These are important, and we welcome them.  The fact is that peace in the south Caucasus will be good for everybody in the region, and will also obviously be good for Turkey.  Can you imagine what the south Caucasus would look like if a generation could grow up in peace, security, and growing prosperity based on settlement not just of Nagorno Karabakh, but all of the regional conflicts -- south Ossetia, Abkhazia -- if energy provided the capital, and the money from energy were well spent instead of foolishly spent.  That region would be transformed.  That would be good for everyone, and then that prosperity would spread out to Central Asia.  That would be a good thing for everyone, and it is a great opportunity. 

QUESTION:  We notice also that there is a very strong relationship developing between America and Azerbaijan with an important military component.  What can we say about these relations?  Are they moving in a kind of strategic direction, especially given that America has a very specific approach to Iran, and Azerbaijan is a country that borders Iran?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRIED:  Our relations with Azerbaijan are developing well.  That has very little to do with Iran.  We are concerned about Iran, but our intentions are to use diplomatic efforts to resolve the serious problem of Iran’s nuclear weapons ambitions.  And I repeat -- diplomatic efforts working with our allies, the so-called EU3 – Britain, France and Germany – working through the United Nations, consulting closely with Turkey, and by the way I did discuss Iran with my Turkish colleagues today.

QUESTION:  That was my next question.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRIED:  Of course we discussed it.  We all agreed that diplomatic approaches are important.  We are quite serious about diplomatic approaches, and we believe this can work.  We do not believe that the Iranian regime is impervious to diplomatic pressure.  We do not believe that the Iranian regime is going to be comfortable being isolated.  So the democratic community -- the Europeans, the Americans, and increasingly the world community -- are all working in the same direction.  I think this can succeed. 

QUESTION:  You have underlined the fact that you are relying on the diplomatic track here.  This is a position that Secretary of State Rice is also underlining on a number of occasions.  The repeating of this appears to suggest that you are responding to some kind of expectation in the world that you may get involved militarily in Iran.  Is this what you are trying to dispel?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRIED:  I am aware of the speculation, including in the Turkish press, about this.  And of course, we don’t take options off the table, and I haven’t done so.  But it is important to emphasize that we are serious about diplomatic efforts, and it is important not to be sidetracked by a debate about military options or speculation about military options.  The diplomatic approach can work if the world is united, if we are serious, and also, frankly, if we are reaching out to the Iranian people.  Sometimes we say there is a problem with Iran.  I don’t know that that’s right.  I don’t know that that we have a problem with Iran.  Why do we think the Iranian people want a confrontation with the world?  Iranian people are proud -- rightly so -- of their own history, of their culture.  They deserve better.  They deserve to live in a world in peace --  peace with themselves, peace with the world.  We need to reach out to them, and show them that there is a better way. 

QUESTION:  Part of your discussion here must of course have also included Turkish-Iraqi relations, Turkish-American relations vis-à-vis Iraq.  Do you have any expectations from Turkey on this score at the moment?  How do you evaluate the role that Turkey seems to be playing now, especially with the meeting in Istanbul where Mr. Khalilzad was brought together with some Sunni leaders?  How do you assess Turkey’s position in Iraq at the moment, and how it relates to American policy?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRIED:  We obviously had differences with Turkey, and we understand the very strong feelings of the Turkish people.  We are sensitive to Turkish concerns.  We want an Iraq which is united, an Iraq which is stable, an Iraq which is going to be a good neighbor for Turkey, and an Iraq which will not be a home for terrorists of any kind, including PKK terrorists for whom we have no patience.  That is a terrorist group, and we want to fight them.  I think there is a far greater degree of understanding between our governments about the challenges we both face in Iraq, and we appreciate Turkish efforts -- especially efforts aimed at supporting a government in Iraq of national unity, a government which can bring together the different ethnic communities and build the kind of democratic, national government, which can increase security for the lives of the Iraqi people.

QUESTION:  You mentioned the PKK.  In Turkey there is almost -- I won’t say cynical -- but a view that America could have been doing more on this rather than throwing the ball to Baghdad and saying you’ve got to sort this out with Baghdad.  Could America be doing more to get rid off the PKK element, or the danger of the PKK element that is threatening Turkey?  Because as you know, we have had an escalation in PKK violence in recent months.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRIED:  We are aware of that.  We think it is horrible.  Innocent Turks have been murdered by PKK terrorists.  We think this is a bad thing.  Turkish-American cooperation against PKK terrorism has a long and good history.  I remember the apprehension of Ocalan, which was an important step and certainly a success for counter-terrorist efforts.  We want to do more working together with Turkey on several fronts.  One is working together to help shut down PKK financing sources in western Europe.  We are working closely with the Turkish Government, and with western European governments to this end.  It is important, of course, that Turkey must work with the Iraqi Government, but we understand the point that we all need to be sensitive to this.  You know perfectly well how difficult the security situation is in Iraq.  This complicates our efforts.  We have sympathy for Turkish Government and Turkish public concern.  When you are being hit by terrorists, you are going to be concerned, and rightly so.  But at the same time, the best future for Iraq will be a future of security.  That will dry up the sources and eliminate the ease with which the PKK can operate in Iraq.  That’s what we have to do together.

QUESTION:  Still on the Middle East, the visit by the Hamas leadership soon after the election and before the government was formed in Palestine raised a few eyebrows in Washington.  We were made to understand that Washington was not very pleased.  How do you look at that?  Do you look on that as a premature visit, or something that may have a positive outcome, because the visit to Moscow elicited a half-positive response from Washington?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRIED:  I am not going to go back and start being critical of something that has already happened.  The fact is Hamas is a terrorist organization.  They need to change their approach to Israel.  They need to change their approach to terrorism.  They need to fulfill the criteria that the Quartet has laid out.  That is the message that we understand Turkey sent to Hamas.  I think it’s important for Turkey and all the friends of peace between the Palestinians and Israelis to send this message so that Hamas understands it can’t go on as it has been, as a terrorist organization.  If Hamas changes, we will welcome that.  But it is important that Hamas understand that it can’t simply receive the world’s indulgence for its continued support of terrorism.  That’s an important message, and one that the Turks, as victims of terrorism, I hope understand.

QUESTION:  If we return to Turkish-American relations, as you suggested earlier we did have some differences of opinion over Iraq.  How would you describe relations now?  There is a tide of anti-Americanism in Turkey that has been quantified by a number of think-tanks internationally.  It is very prevalent, and we do notice it in Turkey in many ways, though we like to argue that it is more ‘anti-Bushism’ as we call it.  You recall that President Clinton’s visit was a very successful one, and there was an outpouring of admiration for him here, especially when he went to the earthquake zones.  How do you describe these relations today and how do you see them within, for example, a five-year perspective?  Has Washington overcome some of the dissatisfaction over Iraq?  Because Mr. Rumsfeld does, on occasion, say that had the Turks allowed us, we would have solved this insurgency problem much more easily.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRIED:  Of course I am aware of the negative feelings among many Turks toward the United States, and I regret that very much.  I regret that because the United States and Turkey have a long record of partnership.  Our relations are based today not simply on the sentiment of pass successes, but frankly on shared values and common interests.  My discussions today at the Foreign Ministry were excellent.  We discussed the south Caucasus.  We discussed their strategic feature.  We discussed Nagorno Karabakh.  We discussed our common commitment to support democracy in the Broader Middle East, and by the way we are very appreciative of Turkey’s leadership in this initiative.  Our interests are similar.  We should be able to build a partnership, and we are building a partnership based on these common interests and common values.  We value Turkey’s potential as a secular republic, but one with a mostly Muslim tradition -- a mostly Muslim population -- as a democracy, which shows that democracy and Islam are not only compatible in theory, but compatible in practice.  This is reality.  So all the objective factors for a strong US-Turkish partnership exist.  I understand there were a lot of concerns in Turkey about Iraq.  It is a neighbor.  It does not bother me that Turks express their view.  You are a sovereign country.  You have every right to.  I just hope that Turks think about the long history of good relations with the United States, and what we can do together, because that is important.

QUESTION:  You mentioned Turkey’s Islamic but nevertheless secular character, and this is one of the things that Washington has valued for some time.  You have had a policy of seeing Turkey anchored in the West by means of European Union membership.  Is this still a priority issue for your country?  If so, what are you doing on this?  Because it is clear that when you are too overt in terms of what you are doing, it doesn’t always please the Europeans. 

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRIED:  You answered your own question, didn’t you?  Our view has not changed.  President Bush in 2004 expressed his support for Turkey’s EU membership very strongly at a US-EU summit.  He did so again in his speech in Istanbul.  It is true that some of our European friends urged us very politely not to be quite so expressive.  But we think that Turkey, if it meets the EU requirements, ought to be treated like every other candidate country to join the EU.  It ought to be treated equally -- not given a special deal, but not given special hurdles either.  This remains our view. 

QUESTION:  Do you still see Turkey as part of the European security architecture, to put it in defense jargon?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRIED:  Turkey has been a member of NATO for over 50 years.

QUESTION:  I am referring to the fact that the security concern has now moved eastward. 

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRIED:  We look at Turkey as a valuable partner, both bilaterally and through NATO.  NATO’s security challenges are moving east.  I was recently in Kabul, where NATO is taking over increasing responsibility.  The civilian head of NATO’s mission is a former Turkish foreign minister.  Turkey is playing a very important role.  You’ve had the lead in ISAF.  You are going to play a leading role in ISAF in the future, I suspect, a very important role.  We look at Turkey as a partner – a partner which doesn’t always agree with us, but a partner with whom we deal with respect based on your knowledge of Central Asia, your knowledge of the Middle East.  This is a partnership which is very satisfying in the results it brings.

QUESTION:  You are aware of some of the criticisms that are leveled at Turkey from Europe and, in fact, from the United States.  We have just seen your human rights report, for example.  What could Turkey be doing to enhance its standing in the West and in Europe?  What could it be doing better, do you think?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRIED:  Turkey is a country which is undergoing a profound process of economic development and democratization.  Turkey is a democracy, of course, but Turkey is evolving and expanding, deepening its democracy.  This is a very hopeful process.  Turkey is making great progress.  I just spent a week in the south Caucasus.  Then I drove in from the airport here and saw how modern, how wealthy, how developed Ankara has become.  Every time I come here, I am more struck by how obviously strong the Turkish economy is.  Of course Turks, like all citizens, live with problems every day, but as an outsider I have come and been impressed by Turkey’s accomplishments.  I am not here to give Turkey a list of things that it has to do.  I am here to talk about the Turkish-US partnership and what we can do together.  I like my visits to Turkey.  I think Turkey is a good -- I don’t like the word “model” -- but Turkey represents a kind of historic precedent which is useful for many countries to keep in mind.

QUESTION:  No discussion such as this would be complete without Cyprus, of course.  It is always there, but it hopefully won’t be for much longer.  What can be done to get this thing moving along?  Because Turks feel that they did what was necessary.  They accepted the plan that the international community put in front of them, and yet they are not receiving any accolades or benefits for having done the right thing.  The Greek Cypriots appear from a Turkish point of view to be being rewarded for their acrimony, for their intransigence now that they are in the European Union.  What can the United States do to move this thing along?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRIED:  The United States supports a settlement of Cyprus based on the principle of a bi-zonal, bi-communal federation.  We don’t support separatism.  We don’t support a separate state in the Turkish community.  The Turkish Cypriot leadership also supports a settlement, and has demonstrated this.  We have had much better relations with the Turkish Cypriot community as a result of that.  What can we do?  We can work with the European Union.  We can work with the United Nations, and encourage creative ways to approach a settlement.  We are not going to recognize in any fashion a separate state.  There is one Cyprus.  But we will do whatever we can to support a settlement.  We have not forgotten the role of the Turkish Cypriot community’s leaders in promoting a settlement.  This was a good thing.  It speaks well of them and their development. 

QUESTION:  Is this part of your active brief to try and get the Cyprus talks going again?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRIED:  It is indeed.

QUESTION:  Just as a final question, Mr. Fried, if I could ask you about this caricature crisis that we have, which seem to embody Huntington’s nightmare.  What do you make of this crisis?  What can a secular but predominantly Islamic country like Turkey do?  What do you make of a suggestion that Foreign Minister Gul made in Europe recently that perhaps European blasphemy laws should also cover Islam in order to cater to the needs of the 20 or so million Muslims in Europe?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRIED:  Secretary Rice has said that the cartoons were offensive.  They were offensive not because they were designed to be so, but because they were insensitive to religious feelings.  So that’s one fact.  A second fact is that we do support freedom of the press.  A third fact is that some of the governments -- and I do not mean the Turkish Government -- who have been critical of the cartoons have no business criticizing it.  I have in mind the Iranian Government and the Syrian Government.  Every day in their media there are offensive articles -- anti-Semitic, hostile, sometimes anti-Christian.  So tolerance works two ways.  They have very little to say on this, and certainly have nothing to say to the people of Denmark who did not deserve the attacks they faced.  What can Turkey do?  Turkey is an example of a country which is mostly Muslim in its population and with its cultural traditions, but a country with a free press and a secular democracy.  I think the answer to the problems raised by the cartoons is not to indulge in speculation about a clash of civilizations in which we do not believe.  But we need to recognize that democracy is the best form of government to reconcile the different values of respect, including respect for Islam and Islamic sensitivities, and freedom.  These are not incompatible values, but they are different values.  In the West, in the United States, we deal with issues of cultural and religious sensitivity every day.  We argue about them.  Every Christmas, there are arguments about whether it is proper for Jesus to be shown on state property.  These are discussions that democratic societies have.  It is nothing new.  These are normal debates that democracies have.  But we don’t go out and riot over it.  So I think Turkey’s example of democracy shows that democratic tolerance is better than the kind of intolerant regimes you find in Iran or some other countries.

QUESTION:  Mr. Fried, thank you very much for this interview. 

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRIED:  It is a pleasure.