STATEMENTS BY U.S. OFFICIALS
Congressman Shays interview with Meltem Acar of Kanal D
Ceylan Hotel
Istanbul
November 29, 2007
M.A.: How did you decide to organize this kind of program, I mentioned about the breakfast, about Diyarbakir.
Shays: First let me say that I consider Turkey a magnificent country. It has an incredible past and it has a wonderful present, and its future is unlimited. And this is a country that can be rightfully a world power. Turkey has tremendous resources, a wonderful people and is in the very center of financial activity. So and it has been a great ally to the United States, and we’d like to think that we have been a good ally. But there is no question that our relations could and should improve. And it is my hope that they will be even better over the years.
M.A.: Sir please let me speak about the famous breakfast. I mean, could you please give me some details, the main topics about the breakfast.
Shays: Well first of all, it may not be clear to people in Turkey, but members of congress are separate from the Executive branch. We have what we call the separation of powers, judicial, executive and legislative. And so, as a member of congress and a senior member of congress, when I want to do something I don’t have to ask for permission from the White House administration. I can say what I want to do and then the State Department, to the best of its ability, tries to meet my need. I said that I wanted to understand more about the challenges that the people of Turkey are facing with the PKK. We view the PKK clearly as an enemy of Turkey, an enemy of Iraq and clearly an enemy of the United States. It is a terrorist organization. I was very saddened with the last attack that took place, which was one of many over the years. And I wanted to understand what we, the United States, are doing to help Turkey deal with this terrorist organization. So I wanted to go out east. And so I asked our Ambassador when he set up the meeting to coordinate with elected leaders past and present from the area that I wanted to go. So that is exactly what he did. My wife would have been very proud of me, because she sometimes says you know U.S. elected officials get used to hearing themselves talk. She says you do your best job when you listen. So I met the Ambassador when he did some opening comments. I just told him what my interest was, to learn more about what was happening in the east. And then various former and present elected officials told me what they thought was happening and what the United States could do to help Turkey deal with the issue of terrorism.
M.S.: And who decided not to invite DTP?
Shays: It is a bit controversial, that party, but it is an elected part of the government. I would not have lost sleep if they had been part of the conversation. I would never ever meet with the PKK. The United States government, whether it is the Executive branch or the Legislative branch, does not meet with a terrorist organization. But at any rate, I met with the people in the region, I guess, minus that party.
M.A.: You know everybody said that DTP was not invited and everybody thought that it means that you are trying to find a solution apart from DTP.
Shays: Well first off let me say that I am not looking to find any solution. This is an internal responsibility of the Turkish government. My interest related to what is our responsibility as a government. And, frankly, that responsibility is embedded, for the moment, in Iraq. We know that PKK has bases in Northern Iraq. So that is where I felt my responsibilities come from, but one of the things that I think maybe people in Turkey don’t understand is that we want to understand the culture of a country, how people think. And so someone like me, who is an active member of Congress, wants to meet with all groups. I would have met with any elected member of your parliament. I would not exclude anyone, because I learn from their perspectives. Now, for instance, I ended up having a meeting when I was out east with family members that have lost loved ones. As it turns out, those who were lost were part of the PKK. I said to this group “that’s a terrorist organization.” And I had someone say “it is not a terrorist organization.” I said “what are you talking about? When you have an organization that kills innocent civilians, innocent government officials, or government officials in general… I mean a policeman is doing his job protecting all the people of Turkey. And when an organization attacks them, they are a terrorist organization. So I had this dialogue but at the same time I listen to what they wanted to tell me. But I was not shy in telling them what I thought. You can’t justify a terrorist activity. However noble someone may think the cause is. However better that Turkey may interact with its entire people, and include its entire people. It can’t happen or be encouraged by terrorist activity. That pushes it in the wrong direction.
M.A.: When you were looking from the USA to these kind of circumstances what did the picture look like? Now that you are here, you had a very important breakfast…
Shays: Everything that I do is a learning experience. I mean I realize that in Turkey people are very sensitive about issues that I would not be as sensitive about. But there is a history that makes people feel the way they do. So if I meet with someone or not meet with someone else people read into it something very different. Or they may think that I am the instrument of the administration. I am a member of Congress. I think I am a good member of Congress, I know I am an active member of Congress and I am a senior member of Congress. I have responsibilities. But one of the things I have learned is just the sensitivities that take place and how much more we need to do on both sides. The Turkish side and the American side need to build confidence with each other. People become suspect of whatever we do and read into it what we didn’t say or didn’t do. And that is a learning experience for me.
M.A.: When you will go back what will you have in mind? I mean what are the main topics of this visit?
Shays: First off I want to make clear with my colleagues and the administration that we are on the right step in our efforts to help Turkish government deal with the PKK. We are gathering sensitive information; we are sharing that information with your government; that is the right and proper thing to do. I met with a family just half an hour ago. This mother, this father lost their son in 2004. The two daughters, the 15 year old daughters lost their brother. It was her second and only son; she lost her first son when he was ten years old. It is important for me to feel the grief and to express to her our sorrow, which she had to deal with. She told me her son was engaged to be married, but told his fiancée that he first needed to fulfill his responsibilities to his country, and serve in law enforcement, and he did it but never came home to her, because he was killed. I won’t forget that experience seeing her two daughters next to her. And she is a wise woman, she knows that she has responsibility to her children to help them grow up and to have successful and happy lives.
M.A: I know that you are working very actively you are very sensitive about terrorism issues… What is your personal plan when you are back, to do for PKK terrorism?
Shays: I mean one is to encourage us to keep doing what we are doing. To make sure that no one in congress thinks like the Europeans that somehow the PKK is not totally and completely a terrorist organization, it is. There are some in Europe who act like if they have some noble concerns that therefore they are not a terrorist organization. I don’t think that is going to be a hard sell with my colleagues. They get it. We in the United States get it. The PKK is a terrorist organization, case closed. I want to thank the administration for its cooperation with the Turkish military. I think you will see it pay off. I think that will be good, that comes from this cooperation. But I also want to encourage all of your citizens to appreciate what your government is doing. Your government is reaching out to people in the east. And I think your elections show that there were people who have a background as Kurdish Turks, Turkish citizens that supported this government. Because I think they realize this government realizes it can do more. And it can. My government can do more to help our citizens. Your government can do more to help its citizens.
M.A: And do you think that Bush government had some difficulty or some kind of dilemma to choose between PKK and Turkey?
Shays: No, no. Let me be so clear on this. I don’t know who in Turkey promotes this idea. But this president and this government has no tolerance with the PKK. We are not on both sides with this issue. But just as we have a hard time dealing with Al Qaeda, just as Israel has a hard time dealing with Hamas and Hizbullah, and Turkey has a hard time dealing with the PKK. It is difficulty to succeed. And you deal with it militarily and you deal with it socially as well. You don’t just deal with it militarily. But you don’t dialogue with terrorists. But the terrorist are trying to appeal to the general public. You do try to communicate with the general public. Your government with its people, we need to. I want to say it again, there is no dialogue with the PKK, there is no support of the PKK, there is no sympathy for the PKK, it is an enemy of Turkey and it is the enemy of the United States. Now we are dealing in a way in Iraq, we have had many failures; there was a point last year where we felt like we were drowning. And we now feel like we are able to swim again. So we will be able to be more helpful I think now than we were in the past to focus more of our attention on getting the Maliki government and the Kurdish regional government of Iraq to confront this terrorist organization as it must. And I want to be clear about this as a member of congress. I believe the Turkish government has every right to confront the PKK on its own land and wherever it seeks haven. But I think your government is wise to be very surgical in what it does when it deals with a terrorist organization over the border.
M.A: What about your visit to Diyarbakir. I mean you told me that you met with the governor.
Shays: I met with the governor, I met with the business community and then I met with some family members that had lost loved ones. Who in fact I suspect after meeting with them were part of the terrorist organization. And I have empathy for any family member that loses a loved one, but I don’t have tolerance and I am not willing to concede for a moment if they were involved with the PKK that they were involved in a noble effort. They weren’t.
M.A.: Did you meet both PKK members’ family and Turkish military family?
Shays: I did one area. I met with the Turkish military in Ankara. I had hoped that I would be able to meet with some of the police and your soldiers who are confronting the PKK. That is the one disappointment that I had; your military was not able to set that up for me. But that was the one part that I had hoped I would be able to have a meeting with your military at the gate, in the region. By the way I would say it is very impressive to see the new gate with twelve lanes in and twelve lanes out. It is a very impressive facility.
M.A.: And for today, we heard that there was supposed to be a lunch in Ankara. But I know if I am wrong please tell me, I know that it was supposed to be a lunch in Ankara. But then because other…
Shays: No, no there was never ever a lunch in Ankara. Because what I did is, I flew from Istanbul to Ankara. I spent the night there. And then we went out east. And then we were set to come back here. So we flew directly here. Never flew to Ankara, and never had any meetings planned in Ankara. Who ever thinks that is inventing something.
M.A.: Because I was told that there was supposed to be a lunch, but than after the some kind of speculations of this breakfast our Prime Ministry didn’t inaudible
Shays: I never requested it, it was never on my schedule, I was never to go back to Ankara. I was to come here. I am going to go to Jordan and than I am going to Iraq. I will be in Iraq on Sunday and Monday. And I will be in Jordan to talk to some of the Sunni tribal leaders who are in Jordan. And I will be meeting with some of the refugees from Iraq that have gone to Jordan. And when I come to Jordan let me say it over again, I visit Turkey, I visit Israel, I visit Jordan , I go to Egypt I got to Arab Emirates to understand how we could do better in Iraq. Because I know we have caused many problems for the region because of what we have done in Iraq. And I seek the advise of this great country. That used to rule the region for 402 years. Who knows better about the region than the people of Turkey and its government. So I come here to learn from them and to visit other countries in the region.
M.A.: Thank you very much.
Shays: Thank you.